New problem

[AnthonyB13]

Ok almighty guru's of the SR20 I have another problem that I need assistance with. I got the down pipe installed finally, and figured that would solve my problem of running a bit rich.

The problems: Hard to start, unless I press on the throttle, and keep it on .
Must slowly let off the gas to get it to idle, and even then it will only idle for a short while before it dies out. (because of this I am unable to fully verify timing.)
Once running if I press on the throttle the response is good although just a touch rough, and will die if I let off too fast. While it idles with a timing light installed the No 1 cylinder seems to be missing as the light is intermittent, another reason why I am unable to fully verify timing.)
While running with a bit of throttle, the AFR gauge is pegged on the rich side (stock O2 sensor with AFR gauge wired into the car side of the harness)

Things I tried: Disconnected the O2 sensor to see how it ran, and it was the same.
Disconnected the TPS and started the car with no effect.
Disconnected the Battery to reset the ECU, no effect.
Pulled the plug from No 1, blackened but not fouled gap at .39

Things I have yet to try but will be later tonight:
Checking for leaky injectors and bad o rings.
Checking the plugs on all cylinders for fouling and excess fuel.


Any help would be appreciated and will be rewarded with my undying gratitude :D

[AnthonyB13]

Ok here are a couple pictures of the injectors. I don't know much about the subject, but I know they didn't leak when I tested them. But I am rather curious due to some discoloring on one of them and cracks in the casing on the others, here are some photos.

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g1/Loki0013/Car%20stuff/TonysCamera002.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g1/Loki0013/Car%20stuff/TonysCamera003.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g1/Loki0013/Car%20stuff/TonysCamera004.jpg
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g1/Loki0013/Car%20stuff/TonysCamera005.jpg

Bottom line, are the injectors bad?

[AnthonyB13]

Update: Swapped out my injectors with ones from my donor car and it seems to run a ton better. I have a couple small oil leaks to chase down and get fixed but not much else. My last issue is the fact that it still wants to die after I let off the gas. I still hold a sneaking suspicion that it may be the Type S BOV I have in there. At least I am one step closer though.

[turbomario98]

ill bet my bottom dollar it's the bov. if mine does it ill be heated...try to recirculate it and see what happens. and those injectors looked reall dirty. you should also clean out the throttle body and put a new gasket on. that will help a lot. keep us posted.

[Dustin]

Update: Swapped out my injectors with ones from my donor car and it seems to run a ton better. I have a couple small oil leaks to chase down and get fixed but not much else. My last issue is the fact that it still wants to die after I let off the gas. I still hold a sneaking suspicion that it may be the Type S BOV I have in there. At least I am one step closer though.

Dont you have the knock off Gredy bov ?

[AnthonyB13]

It is a Greddy type S BOV, my wife suprised me and won a Turbo XS RFL on Ebay, so once that gets here I will swap those out. I am also checking out the Dec-Air feature in the AFC Neo, so I may end up getting one of those as well. Right now I am at stopping point as my wife's two weeks reserve time is here and I have to watch the kids while I finish out my leave.

As for doing a recirc on the BOV I am not worried about it for the moment. Once I can mount up the RFL it should help if not solve the problem, if not than a Neo will definitely fix it.

My main thing right now is just getting the car so it is back on the road. I am going back to Afghanistan in a few months so I won't be able to do a lot more to the car. However being deployed does pay for a lot of parts. :D

[NathanM]

You're probably running into two problems, BoV and having some injector problems. Did you check your other plugs? I know that when my motor first fired up I was given a stuck fuel injector (stuck always open) and that was making me sound like a god awful Subi with that anoying backfire (you know the one I'm talking about).

Is your BoV staying open a little bit all the time and are you still using you MAF? You should be able to feel a little bit of air all the time and that's normal, you just run into problems with the MAF not being able to read that air so when you recirculate it it'll be able to read it.

[AnthonyB13]

Update: Got her running today, got her out of the car trailer and drove up to the gas station to put some fresh gas.

Current issues: Still wants to stall as I slow down coming to a stop, think I may just have to relearn left foot braking for a while.
Oil pressure starts out at around 25 PSI according to the gauge, and spikes as I give it gas, (didn't think to remember what the high was). As I come to a stop the pressure goes down even more, at one point when I drove back into my driveway it was at 5 PSI till I hit the gas a little and it crawled back up. Possible bad oil pump?

Edit: The lower oil pan is dented as well, could that or something else be the culprit?

[turbomario98]

the oil pressure sounds about right. now the knock off bov could have something to do with it. the knock off's usually have really weak springs and even leak sometimes. now i have seen a few that were actually pretty good. but that could be a dud. now what i would suggest is a new one or a friends. try it out and if it still does it just recirculate it. i know the cool sound will be lost but your car will not die on you. keep us posted.

[AnthonyB13]

Thanks for the input Mario, it is an actual Greddy BOV, but I do have a Turbo XS RFL on the way, should be here Tuesday as a matter of fact. I will keep you guys posted on how everything goes.

[NathanM]

Knock off or real GReddy you're still going to have the same problem. On the GReddy website and on Tial's when I was trying to learn more about why my car was doing the same thing as yours I found their adaption flange to recirculate and they said "Keeps MAF's Happy" in italic right after it. Now if you redo the setup with a standalone you'll be good, or use a different BoV that operates in a different manner, or recirculate; so you have three different viable options.

[AnthonyB13]

Yea I hear you Nathan, right now I am not heavily into recirc simply because I will have to get another flange welded in to feed it to. I will give the Turbo XS a shot and if it still presents the same problem then I will bite the bullet and get a flange and recirc.

I appreciate all the help and suggestions gents, glad to be a member of such a giving community. :D

My other option that I am considering (albeit the most expensive) is purchasing a NEO, but I will burn that bridge when I come to it.

[ErixSEL]

Check your timing, When you switched injectors did you put new orings? If not do it, could still be leaking. and if your turbo...LOWER YOUR PLUG GAP! thats what n/a's are running you want to be at .028-.030. Some new plugs wouldn't hurt either. Whens the last time you did a tune up? Dist cap and rotor, fuel filter, plugs, wires. Go all OEM for that stuff. No autozone crap. Also your A/F gauge is worthless get a real WideBand to get accurate readings.

Whats your vacuum at idle? check for boost/vacuum leaks? Try turning your idle up a bit.

[AnthonyB13]

Timing I will double check now that I am able to idle it. I didn't mess with the o-rings at all, I completely switched fuel rails (known good injectors and fuel rail), so the injectors were never fully removed. Almost all of the parts that I have replaced on this car came from my donor car, which received a full tuneup before it gave up the ghost (about a week and a half before), right before I deployed. The plugs, wires, dist cap, rotor, all were taken from that car to put on this one. My VAC I will double check next time I start her up but just from caual observation the readings seemed to be well within norms. I will definitely regap the plugs to your suggestion, and the idle when cold is just above a grand, and when warm appx 800.

I have noticed that since I had the opportunity to run her a bit up to the gas station and back with fresh gas she is doing a lot better. I know the car was sitting a while before I got to it, but I am unsure of exactly how long, so the gas may have been a wee bit "unhappy".

The A/F gauge that I have now is only a temp, I am just running with what the previous owner had installed. After I get back from Afghanistan I will be putting in a wideband, just right now I don't have the time or the funds.

I am fairly certain that the number one issue is the BOV, since recirc is always better for MAF cars I may just have to bite the bullet and get a flange welded in to recirc. But that will still depend on how the car acts once I get the XS installed.

[ErixSEL]

Whats your vacuum at ilde?

[AnthonyB13]

Whats your vacuum at ilde?


I retract my earlier statement, seems as though I may have a leak somewhere. My gauge reads at 14 and wavers ever so slightly. So once I have the time I will be chasing that down and may as well put some new plugs in too as I can bet that these will be pretty black by the time I get this down. Thanks for the info Eric.

[turbomario98]

you just dont wanna get rid of the sound.....but why strain your motor bro???? just recirculate and see what happens. also to find a leak you can take off the intake pipe and block off the throttle body. you will hear it before the motor dies...or you could take some stater fluid and lightly spray it on one spot at a time....i would not encourage you to do that around any good friend who smokes because that dumb @$% will more than likely blow your and him up.....

[AnthonyB13]

You are right, I don't want to get rid of the sound, not yet anyway. I am simply working my way up the options list from the simplest to the most difficult and/or expensive.

I was planning on redoing the vacuum lines with colored silicone or with braided steel but I wasn't exactly planning on doing it this early on. My main thing will be trying to clean up the "rats nest" that is in there right now. I can't seem to find a decent vacuum diagram as a starting point, can someone post up a pic of how theirs are routed so I can make sure I am on the right track?

My one obstacle at the moment is that my wife is out of town for her annual training with the reserves, and I am here with the kids. With one of them not in school yet it makes it hard to get outside and work on the car.

I really appreciate all the help gents, if this keeps up I will be on the road and running at 100% in no time.

[ErixSEL]

NP man, trace that leak down and you should have your fix. should be anywhere between 17-20 for vacuum and steady

[turbomario98]

do not and i say again do not get the braided. they wont flex and they will leak. i tried it. looks cool, but dont work. not all my oil and coolant lines are but not the vacume. the rubber will make a natural seal after a few days. i still put on zip ties though. no here is your diagram......

[Jason@JGY]

Update: Got her running today, got her out of the car trailer and drove up to the gas station to put some fresh gas.

Current issues: Still wants to stall as I slow down coming to a stop, think I may just have to relearn left foot braking for a while.
Oil pressure starts out at around 25 PSI according to the gauge, and spikes as I give it gas, (didn't think to remember what the high was). As I come to a stop the pressure goes down even more, at one point when I drove back into my driveway it was at 5 PSI till I hit the gas a little and it crawled back up. Possible bad oil pump?

Edit: The lower oil pan is dented as well, could that or something else be the culprit?

IMMEDIATELY TAKE THAT OIL PAN OFF AND DENT IT OUT AND PUT IT BACK ON AS YOU WILL RUIN YOUR MOTOR AND WE WILL HAVE TO SELL YOU ONE

[AnthonyB13]

Yessir, right away sir!

[turbomario98]

take it easy though. rubber hammer and make sure to do not put a whole in it. this process will weaken the metal and my rip.....

[AnthonyB13]

Actually wasn't planning on beating it, if I remember correctly my donor car has a good oil pan. And thanks for the advice on the lines Mario, silicone it is.

[AnthonyB13]

Well gents after replacing the oil pan, and fixing a sudden coolant line self destruct she seems to be running like a champ. I got everything worked out, put in some NGK plugs gapped to .28-.30 and started her up. She seemed to smoke a bit at idle, which I attributed to being dormant for many months, and after a little bit of smoke out she cleared up nice. I ended up doing the recirc on the BOV in a real hurry since my adapter flange for the RFL didn't make it in in time for me to be able to drive her to work. Next weekend I will be doing the EGR delete and rerouting all the vacuum lines. I found one certain vac leak and swapped out that line and my vac holds steady at about 16-17 at idle.

I can't thank everyone enough for their help on getting my problems figured out, and I can only hope that I can repay the favor someday. As I make other changes to the car I will make updates to my Members Ride thread.